Curse

Worldeater · May 31, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

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Dwarven Battle Stance [ELITE]
For 5...10...11 seconds, you attack 33% faster, and if your hammer attacks hit, your target is interrupted. Dwarven Battle Stance ends if you use a skill.
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Dwarven Battle Stance is a wicked skill. My eyes nearly rolled out of my head when i saw it. IAS with interrupt! Every time!

But it has its shortcomings. It does not last very long and it costs a hefty sum of mana ( for a warrior with 2 pips regeneration )

I have searched low and high for a build that can use it consistently. But every build I have looked at either has to low DPS to do anything usefull besides interrupt or they run out of steam to soon to do any real damage.

Builds that I have found are :

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Dwarven Battle Stance, Rush, Renewing Smash, Staggering Blow, Auspicious Blow, Hammer Bash, Grasping Earth, Resurrection Signet, Crushing Blow, Heavy Blow

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Dwarven Battle Stance, Renewing Smash, Heavy Blow, Staggering Blow, Dolyak Signet, Signet of Strength, Healing Signet, Wild Blow

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Staggering Blow, Heavy Blow, Bull's Strike, Dwarven Battle Stance, Enraging Charge, Mending Touch, Healing Signet, Resurrection Signet

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I was thinking that a W/E with DBS and Grasping Earth could be wicked in PvP. Maby with some skills that punish blockers with KD or conditions so I can still kick the a** even aganst those pesky blocking/dodgings skills.

Does anyone have any builds that can put this skill to use and achieve its full potential?

Suggestions of any kind are greeted with thanks.

And somone please tell me how to skill link, the search seems to be busted and I can not find anything about it. (I am new here so be gentle, please

)

Cheers,
Simon.

LifeInfusion · Jun 01, 2007, 01:04 AM // 01:04

It's a mediocre skill at best compared to things like Practiced stance+Choking Gas or Incendiary arrows.
Problems:
-stance --> no movement speed boost (luckily it has the +33% attack speed)
-duration is 1/3 of the uptime
-10 energy skill on warrior warrants using a zealous hammer or +energy armor

However, I drafted up something of the sort with DBS...

Variant One using Renewing smash:

Warrior/Assassin DBS

Strength: 11 (10+1)
Hammer Mastery: 13 (11+2)
Deadly Arts: 10

- Siphon Speed (Deadly Arts)
- Dwarven Battle Stance [Elite] (Strength)
- Iron Palm (Deadly Arts)
- Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Renewing Smash (Hammer Mastery) <-- a must with DBS, to keep it up a decent amount of time
- Expose Defenses (Deadly Arts)
- Irresistible Blow (Hammer Mastery)
- Resurrection Signet ()

Expose Defenses and Siphon Speed if they run or have hex removal (Siphon to cover expose)
DBS to build adrenaline
Iron Palm for Knockdown--> Crushing Blow for Deep Wound
If expose defenses ends, use Irresistible blow--> renewing smash to recharge DB.

expose Defenses is the only way to guarantee you won't be using skills during the DBS.

The main problem with DBS is there is no way to guarantee that the target won't get aegis-ed, guardian-ed, etc. which is why I chose to run Expose Defenses

Shortcomings: no heal, no way to deal with hexes/conditions (Blind)
Best bet is to wear a -20% blind rune with stonefist gauntlets
================================================== ========
Variant 2 using "on your knees!":
Warrior/Elementalist
Level: 20

Strength: 11 (10+1)
Tactics: 9 (8+1)
Hammer Mastery: 16 (12+4)

- Dwarven Battle Stance [Elite] (Strength)
- Irresistible Blow (Hammer Mastery) <-- knockdown if it is just blocking
- Shock (Air Magic) <-- unconditional knockdown
- "On Your Knees!" (Warrior other) <-- recharge stances
- Counter Blow (Hammer Mastery) <-- knock down attacking foes, no drawbacks
- Crushing Blow (Hammer Mastery) <-- deep wound attacking foes
- Healing Signet (Tactics) <-- heal
- Resurrection Signet () <-- res
Unlike the previous one, shock is used instead of iron palm. Since shock is a touch skill it ignores blind, miss chance, etc. which allows you to use the shout "On your knees!" provided you have the 6 adrenaline.
Basically, it guarantees 100% upkeep if the target has no blocking.

Healing signet is used instead of lion's comfort since adrenaline gain with a hammer is very iffy.
================================================== ========
Anyway, you're better off running incendiary arrows with flurry, since DBS is really lacking.

Worldeater · Jun 01, 2007, 01:29 AM // 01:29

Thanks for the reply. You gave me some new insights here. Ill have a look at it and see what I can come up with.

My general idea was to use DBS on soft targets that have access to little in the way of blocking and so the IAS/interrupted would quickly take them down. And use other hammer/ele skills on targets that can shut me down with blind/block etc.

Allso, is there any way to make stances last longer? From 12 to 16 STR there is little gain in duration, just one second. Making it last longer would make it immensly more usefull.

Cheers,
Simon.

A Leprechaun · Jun 01, 2007, 09:14 AM // 09:14

I love the skill, but in PvP if i were using a hammer I think packing a build with oads of knockdowns might be more effective and free up a bit of space for utility. But it could be viable, mabye have another guy to stop the target blocking/running then lay into him with DB?

~A Leprechaun~

LifeInfusion · Jun 01, 2007, 08:26 PM // 20:26

There is no way to make stances longer, and wild blow or wild strike makes you a "sad panda" with DBS. That's why I say it is inferior to Incendiary arrows or Choking Gas, which are preparations for rangers.

Like A Leprechaun said, it is better to just run knockdowns like Devastating Hammer or Earthshaker which don't lose adrenaline and then pack an interrupt like Distracting blow for stuff that cannot be knocked down.

Worldeater · Jun 01, 2007, 09:27 PM // 21:27

I had some good fun in AB today with DBS. I tried a few of builds ive found. And I have to say that the skill just is not efficient enough. It has to much down time, both concerning the recharge and the energy cost. Even with stance rechargers there just is not enough time or energy to go around. But the skill found its use a couple of times. The most fun build I used Grasping Earth to snare casters and then pound them to death with DBS. But sadly its just not good enough.

Thanks for the feedback so far. Another thing I was wondering about is what elite you guys would reccomend for a hammer warrior. There is so much to chose from, both in the Hammer line and in the Str line. There are even a few unlinked skills that could be usefull.

Cheers,
Simon

A Leprechaun · Jun 02, 2007, 10:06 AM // 10:06

Devestating hammer can pack some serious pwnage in a hammer chain based on the weakness it provides.

Backbreaker, no weakness, but then again... 4 second knockdown!! and + dmg, awesome, but 10 adrenaline :/

Earthshaker is good in PvE and can be handy in PvP but AoE is not called for much and it cost more than devestating hammer and does not have any other posotive effects.

Enraged smash some people say is awesome but I have not used it much not so handy in PvP as in PvP generaly spiking is king whereas this skill has good DPS.

Forceful blow is the (in my view) little brother to devestating hammer, packs nice damage and can also be put in a weakness based chain, yet it has no knockdown, and knockdowns can be very very potent, but its an amazing 5 adrenaline which I think could be well worth it. Also self KD if its blocked, this could be a problem in PvP.

Magehunters Smash to me it looks pretty poor, and in my experiances of it in PvE it is, but then again low-ish cost and an easy way to punish aegis users? still on an unenchanted enemy its a waste of a skill slot.

Thats just my opinion on the hammer elites , I hyavent done much PvP especially not with hammer so most of its based on my experiances of it in PvE and the small amount of AB/RA Ive done with hammer.

~A Leprechaun~

** Sry in advance for the spelling and gramatictal errors that have no doubt wriggled there way into my long post ^^

RotteN · Jun 02, 2007, 11:28 AM // 11:28

PvP-wise DBS is simply crap. In the actual event that you do manage to snare an opponent for 10 seconds and interupt all his actions, that still won't kill him, cause you're not allowed to use skills.

A simple knockdown chain will make an opponent sit on his ass for 6 - 9 - 12 seconds (bull's strike - devestating - bash - shock) giving you plenty of time to unleach a lot of damage. He won't run away, and he sure as hell won't cast anything.

KD's >>> DBS

LifeInfusion · Jun 02, 2007, 12:33 PM // 12:33

Devastating hammer --> auspicious blow --> crushing blow --> possibly heavy blow (yielding weakness, then using the weakness to gain energy, deep wound...must use stonefist insignia to pull this off otherwise it is just Devastating --> crushing)
Backbreaker --> crushing blow (note how the chain is shorter due to lack of weakness condition)
Earthshaker --> crude swing or aftershock/etc. (earthshaker is only good for crude swing since crude swing is easily interruptible)

Other skills:
-counter blow is conditional, but it is very useful against warriors/assassins/dervishes.

-Irresistible blow is useful when you regular knockdowns do not work, simply because it knocks down when the target is blocking.

-Wild blow can act as a stance breaker or lead of attack chains

-Distracting blow is a PBAOE interrupt

Knockdown wise, you have these options
* Backbreaker (enemy knocked down for 4 seconds) <-- too expensive
* Counter Blow (against attacking foes) <-- conditional
* Devastating Hammer (causes Weakness too) <--best knockdown IMO
* Earth Shaker (all adjacent foes) <-- AoE
* Hammer Bash <-- lose all adrenaline
* Heavy Blow (against foes suffering from weakness) <-- lose all adrenaline
* Irresistible Blow (against foes who block) <-- 5 energy, useful for guardian/aegis but recently nerfed to have a longer recharge because it is so awesome
* Magehunter's Smash (against enchanted foes) <-- waste of an elite, worse than DBS probably

A Leprechaun · Jun 02, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

^ Wild blow would useless to lead an attack chain, unless the attack chain is energy based o.O

~A Leprechaun~

LifeInfusion · Jun 02, 2007, 07:10 PM // 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Leprechaun

^ Wild blow would useless to lead an attack chain, unless the attack chain is energy based o.O

~A Leprechaun~

Uh, it is a guarantee that the target won't have stances. I think you want to hit Wild Blow before you can charge adrenaline, since adrenaline doesn't charge without hitting or getting hit.

Productivity · Jun 03, 2007, 03:19 AM // 03:19

It's really really bad. Seriously, anyone with a clue will just time their skills in between your hits.

*Hit* Cast *Hit* Cast *Hit* Cast...

A Leprechaun · Jun 03, 2007, 09:36 AM // 09:36

^ Then the mesmer in the party just has to time the interupts to in between the attacks too XD.

@ Lifeinfusion ~ Ah. ^^

~A Leprechaun~

LouAl · Jun 06, 2007, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Beserker Stance>DBS

you don't really need to interrupt every hit and Beserker gives you +50% adrenaline. When you compare the two, it isn't really apparent why DBS is elite...It has the same "ends with skill use" condition and only interrupts on hit (as in it can be blocked just as easily as anything) and it doesn't have a speed boost to make it so that kiting is tougher. I liked the idea when I first discovered it, but DBS is mostly just crap.

a propsed change would be to drop the "ends if you use a skill" condition or to give it the same +50% adrenaline or have it also give a +15% speed boost

OR, and this is my favorite, change the description completely to "For 2...6 seconds, you attack 25% faster, and if your hammer attacks hit, your target is knocked down. Dwarven Battle Stance ends if you use a skill." and change the recharge to 20 seconds. This last one would be cool because it would let you KD multiple foes if they are close enough and KD one foe over and over for 6 seconds (unless they block) and it still ends if you use a skill. Compared to Backbreaker, which only needs to hit once to KD for 4 seconds it really wouldn't be that bad since it wouldn't be able to be used very often and wouldn't last forever...just a thought.